Technical Questions

[Griffin NoName]

I needed an extra multi-gang socket today, and when buying got one of those salesperson sales patters -

surge protectors are useless if your equipment is hit twice - you know, like if two surges come along in quick succession it will only stop the first one.

On that basis shouldn't there be statistics available for how often this double risk occurs? - so that the public can assess the value of having a surge protector at all

... and why don't surge protectors have warning lights (or something) when they are bust (like the telephone protectors do).

There was a notice in the shop saying

"Ask our experts, We'd rather get it right than sell you anything at all"

so how come they ever sell any surge protectors?

[beagle]

surge protectors are useless if your equipment is hit twice - you know, like if two surges come along in quick succession it will only stop the first one.

Why's that then Ted? Hadn't heard that one. I thought that the MOVs switched in nanoseconds, though they deteriorate with time and use, and are hard to test.
Or did he literally mean if lightning strikes twice rather than "normal" over-voltage surges?

[Griffin NoName]

It was surges under discussion. He may have had a lightening switch in his brain and therefore a sentence relevant to lightening strikes popped out of his mouth. I couldn't see any label on him that described any protection on his brain.

Is there a market opening for lightning protectors - spec. 1st strike causes cut off connectivity to electical appliances permanently until manually reset.  ?

[Bluenose]

Surge protectors are rated on the amount of energy they can absorb, usually measured in Joules.

If a particular surge exceeds the energy absorbing capacity of a surge protector then it will be kaput and any further excess energy will be pased on to your equipment.

Generally speaking it a question of you get what you pay for.  Very cheap surge protectors are appropriate for inexpensive equipment, more valuable equipment should be protected by better quality protector.

I use a professional standard 1.4 KVA UPS for my computer, this not only protects me against surges, but also under and over voltage situations, plus of course power failures, especially the particulalry deadly short term outages.

At the end of the day, you have to make your own decision.  But make sure you back up your data, and that does not include putting a copy of your data on another hard drive inside your computer - if the computer gets zapped by lightining, or even a power surge, you "backup" may well get fried along with your original data.  Your backup need to be made on some sort of external media - CD, DVD or even a USB or Firewire hard drive and preferable kept separate to your computer.

.

[Griffin NoName]

Later.....

The enclosed instruction leaflet, which of course you couldn't read until you had hacked your way through all the packaging with an axe, and which was unusually verbose, said:

protects your equipment against power surges, lightening strikes,......

and on a different page:

switch the power switch to the off position during lightening storms

Pure Scumsoft

Bluenose, to follow up your point, it actually wasn't the case here. The surge protector the salesman was selling was £20 more expensive with less protection than an alternative I was considering. Less than half the protection in fact. But plenty for my purposes. What it did have was other stuff I wanted.

The salesman didn't like it at all when I pointed out it's lesser capabilities as a surge protector. I think that's what led him to start the misleading sales patter.

Increasingly you don't get what you pay for and that's what makes me cross.

The public don't know all the ins and outs, and why should they? It's all far too technical for the average man/woman in the street.

Sales tricks like "Ask our experts, We'd rather get it right than sell you anything at all" just make me mad, the sales guys being anything but experts.

[Bluenose]

Yeah, you have to read the fine print.  I always look at the tech specs for this sort of gear and certainly more expensive does not always equal more protection, often it is just a whole lot of other stuff bundled with it that makes it more expensive, or they decided to go by the old pricing method of "think of a number, double it, add you grandmother's age and multiply by the number you first thought of".

As for lightening protection, there is no such thing.  The amount of energy involved makes the very idea of some little plug in device giving you any sort of meaningful protection completely meaningless.  The only sure way to protect against lighting strike is to avoid getting struck by lightning in the first place.  It is sensible to unplug electronic equipment when lightning is about and that will decrease the likelihood of damage, but lightning does strange things and nothing is sure.  My father once had a lightning strike on a radio mast at his place and although he had taken all the relevant precautions, unplugged ll the gear from the mains, earthed out all the antennas etc, the lightning came down the braid (earth) of the cable for the antenna rotator, jumped across to the house mains, took out the main house fuse, jumped across the air gap from one of the power points in the radio room and proceeded to blow up the main transmitter's power supply.

So, take reasonable precautions, but don't expect lightning to play by the rules!

[Griffin NoName]

Yeh, my sister had every electrical item in her house taken out by lightening <sigh>

The only way to read the fine print, often, is to get the actual technical specs on the Internet.

The packaging war isn't just about ecology, it's about not being able to see exactly what they are selling. I wouldn't mind if they put the finer detail on the exterior but they don't.

[Bluenose]

You're right, it is frustrating that the information you often need to evaluate a device and so decide whether it will do what you want is usually inside the packaging, if it is provided at all.

OTOH, there is no substitute for having a good grasp on some basic principles of physics.  For example, does it make sense that something you can hold in your hand can protect sensitive electronic equipment from lightning, you know like a gazillion volts that has already demonstrated that it can arc across at least several hundred metres of air gap?  No matter what the package says, I don't believe it!

Sibling Bluenose

[Griffin NoName]

It wasn't clear what the salesman thought. On the face of it he was saying surge protectors were one surge only devices.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt led to the theorising that perhaps he thought a lightening strike was a one event only - of course he wouldn't have appreciated the insanely clever power switch off due to the packaging.

History: I bought a DVD/Tuner from this shop, served by the same guy. He hadn't the faintest idea what features it had and didn't even understand what the ones that were actually listed on the box meant. Even showing him the full techinical spec. which I had printed off the manufacturer site failed to help him.

I just thought he might do better with a simpler device like a surge protector given the new sign in the shop ""Ask our experts, We'd rather get it right than sell you anything at all"

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

I just thought he might do better with a simpler device like a surge protector given the new sign in the shop ""Ask our experts, We'd rather get it right than sell you anything at all"

Perhaps the shop's "experts" were in the storeroom "testing" the Wiis or Playstations.   

[Griffin NoName]

Windows 98SE to XP upgrade Question.

Instructions advise doing a Dynamic upgrade so any missing essential drivers can be downloaded.

Although I am fairly sure I have all required essential drivers on CDs (I have run the update checker) I guess it is best to follow the advice.

However, this leaves a bit of a conundrum.

If I do the Dynamic, then theoretically I need my internet security software running. (it is compatible). However, one would not normally try doing something as serious as a major upgrade with such software running.

Three questions:

1. Is it only me that tortures myself with this type of conundrum?
2. Why isn't the answer to this question in the "How to" guide?
3. If it were you, would you have the internet security s/w running or not when doing the dynamic upgrade.

[ivor]

I would shut down the software and disconnect the computer from the internet.

Have you ensured that your machine meets the minimum hardware specification?

[Griffin NoName]

I would shut down the software and disconnect the computer from the internet.

so, you would disregard the advice to do a dynamic upgrade?

Have you ensured that your machine meets the minimum hardware specification?

Yes, it is so high above spec. that is a total non-issue.

And, the only part that there is any query over is the parallel port accelerator. Since I am about to ditch my parallel port printer, I think I can afford to lose the accelerator !

I am currently cursing trying to uninstall 3 programs that are not compatible, and will not uninstall when upgraded under XP, and which will not uninstall due to uninstall errors <grin> (we have ways, it's a non issue, it is just *******y irritating and ***** time wasting).

In my next life I want a computer as my best friend.

[ivor]

I've never done a dynamic update.  It sounds fun though! 

[Griffin NoName]

I've never done a dynamic update.  It sounds fun though! 

Sounds sort of aerobic doesn't it?

[beagle]

so, you would disregard the advice to do a dynamic upgrade?

Unless you have a separate external firewall I would disregard it personally.  Not that I'm an expert on upgrades; it's an item of faith for me that part of the joy of a new O.S. is the pleasure of throwing away the whole of the old rubbish and starting again.

According to this it's optional.  It should get the important stuff on subsequent runs of Windows Update once your new O.S. is going.

Alternatively that link tells you how to download them in advance.

[Griffin NoName]

Yes. Not concerned about windows update - happy to do that myself anyway. I've eliminated all other reasons why XP might not install or leave me with an unbootable system etc etc so I think the risks with dynamic are not worth the hassle.

Since the modem driver may need upgrading, I'd rather do that in my own time - have disk - rather than have everything grind to a halt unpredicatbly.

Thanks for link.

[beagle]

It's probably a bit of a trade-off.  If you do dynamic you could be exposed firewall-wise while it downloads, and if you don't there will be hundreds of updates to collect through Windows Update afterwards, especially if your installation CD is pre-SP2.

You could download the cabs manually, or us restrictive rules in your ADSL router's own firewall (but you probably need a computer to control that...).

Might be worth downloading the latest cabs first and sticking on cd in case of emergencies.

[Griffin NoName]

The upgrade pack is SP2. But thanks.

More likely is if I upgrade my BIOS I'll need to re-install XP

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Nah! I've updated my BIOS several times without having to reinstall the system, in fact the system didn't even blip (provided that the IRQs remain assigned in the same place which should be the case).

[Griffin NoName]

The machine boots into Windows XP fine - it all seems a success. So far. As far as it goes; everything seems to be intact. Mind, I have nothing attached to the machine yet. Planning to see how many new drivers I need tomorrow.....

It's sooooo slow as I run out of energy before the machine does. I'm going for the longest simple upgrade class Olympics.

[Griffin NoName]

Todays questions relate to power cords and fax cables.

Question One

I was about to ditch the new printer power cord - not the one with the transformer, the ordinary one that connects the transformer to the power point because the new printer power cord must be the shortest I have ever seen in the entire history of electricity - (so that's how they can bring the prices down on printers) - and wouldn't reach between two siamese twins let alone the printer and the sensibly close by power point - and I have a decent length power cord spare.

So I was comparing the two cords. No visible difference. Same diameter core etc.

My spare cord is marked 6/250 13 Amp and has a 13 Amp fuse in. The fuse has never been changed.

The new printer cable is marked 10/250 and has a 10 Amp fuse in.

Both have moulded plugs.

Why would the spare be marked "6" ( as in 6/250) ?

Question Two

The printer has a fax function. The cable supplied to connect the line is described in the instruction book as different to normal telephone cables (although it looks identical) and the book goes on to state that using an ordinary cable to connect the line will damage the printer. What? I've never had this problem with other fax machines. What is the "difference"?

[The Meromorph]

I believe the 6 and the 10 are AWG sizes (wire guage) of the internal wire, and the 250's are the voltage ratings of the insulation.

The 'telephone connector' for the fax might be a crossover vs. non-crossover cable thing...

[Griffin NoName]

Thanks Mero.

Today's question is essentially Microsoft, but applies to any security software I guess.

I am interested in the apparent logical inconsistency of all the panic-inducing red alarm signals telling one to get the latest updates, particularly during initial installation to a fresh system, while all the time one is downloading and installing them one is connected to the internet and apparently unprotected.

Does anyone know if these/which products are sensible/intelligent and block access to everything except the updates download site when undertaking this task?

(I think my objection is to the red. I wish they'd keep that for deep trouble, rather than warnings. maybe I'll start a campaign for purple).

[beagle]

Microsoft used to be bad on this because they seemed to assume you were installing it offline or behind a company firewall.  Think they're better these days, though it's always best to do as much installation as possible with the network cable out.  OneCare is inclined to show red all the time you don't have the latest stuff. I think it downloads it in the background then switches it in atomically, so you're "probably" all right.  Have noticed that you really need broadband for it though, as the downloads are a bit large for dial-up.

If you go somewhere like www.sysinternals.com you can download various natty utilities to show network activity, or you could scan yourself with  Symantec or Trend free firewall scans, or attack yourself with nmap or similar.

The Linux equivalent sin was supplying tons of freeware utilities with known security holes on their installation media.  When I was a Linux newby with the inclination to install everything in sight on the CDs the bearded ones would patiently explain the concept of minimal installs, and how of the four FTP servers provided three were in the CERT top ten "mad things to put on your machine" list (not sure that was the official designation they used).

[Griffin NoName]

Huh! Onecare won't BEGIN to install without the upgrades. It's the first step.... plug into internet... get upgrades.... else terminate......that's what irritated me. I suppose it may be possible the install utility on the CD and allows one to get around the auto install functions somehow, but frankly I have better things to do with me time than find out how. IDIOTS.

Microsoft haven't heard of minimal installs. They advise stopping services !!  Grrrr. Why start them if not needed......

It's auto installed .NET - more insanity. How many people (realistically) actually need .NET ?

BLOAT BLOAT BLOAT BLOAT 

[beagle]

I suspect OneCare turns on the ordinary XP firewall before it starts downloading, but you could always turn it on manually.

It's auto installed .NET - more insanity. How many people (realistically) actually need .NET ?

You mean you aren't champing at the bit to try all those groovy .Net 3.0 technologies like WPF, WCF,  WF,  Silverlight etc?

I'm shocked.  I  bet you program in FORTRAN don't you?

[ivor]

I dislike Microsoft but .Net rocks.

[Griffin NoName]

Oddly, I have noticed I don't need FORTRAN to internet shop     - nor to post nonsense on forums.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

BTW .NET is required to install certain driver utilities now, like ATi display control center. .NET may seem like a bloat but if most applications were using it all the problems with dlls and the registry would go away very quickly.

Other thing: I notice your concern for security during a system install, but unless your IP has been logged and it is under constant and systematic attack, plus, you are connected directly (no router), I don't see a big risk installing while plugged in. If you are behind a router, you may want to disable any NAT ports that go to the concerned IP but that is if you aren't using DHCP on the router (which is the usual). Still the risk is quite low.

Or perhaps I should be more concerned about my security? 

[Griffin NoName]

BTW .NET is required to install certain driver utilities now, like ATi display control center. .NET may seem like a bloat but if most applications were using it all the problems with dlls and the registry would go away very quickly.

Fine and good if and when. Meanwhile worst of both worlds

Other thing: I notice your concern for security ..............Still the risk is quite low.

Or perhaps I should be more concerned about my security? 

One's sense of security gets shaken when one has had episodes of watching attacks (blocked) come in the minute one connects  

I reset the modem and Beagle is right as far as MS is concerned- Onecare turns on the XP firewall initially anyway.