Population, Economy and the environment

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Poverty is a relative term, the supposedly rich guy in a small town in Africa is likely having a standard of living lower than most of us regardless of our net worth (to keep our standard of living we are likely to have long term debts, for instance).

Still there are details that must be considered. On one hand the talk in economic circles is one of sustainable growth which essentially assumes that the potential wealth will keep going up particularly in the so-called rising economies. On the other, the goal of everyone in the planet is to have the standard of living that we have or better but there is an environmental cost for that goal which so far looks unsustainable.

In general terms Earth may be able to sustain 10 billion of people (it is expected to stabilize in 2050 at about 9.2 billion) but there is a good likelihood of unhappiness in a good percentage of that number.


If you look at places like the middle east the percentage of undernourished people is lower than latin america, south east asia and subsaharan africa but still the level of strife is particularly high. More so, malnutrition isn't the same as starvation which is significantly lower.

The other question is one of sustainability, we are able* to feed the people of the world today but will be able to do so 40 years from now? The depletion of fisheries is a very worrisome sign, the same with the consequences of deforestation for global climate.

The way I see it it won't be the end of the world but it's going to be very painful for a lot of people.

*incredible amounts of food are wasted in the 1st world that would perfectly solve all hunger problems elsewhere.

Then again, diesel is more expensive than gasoline in AB and prone to shortages.

Ever heard of biodiesel? Do you know any fast food joints around your house and what they do with their cooking oil? Apart from filtering the stuff for big particulates you can put the stuff in a diesel engine without any problems, as long as you use a bit of regular diesel from time to time.

[Aggie]

Ever heard of biodiesel? Do you know any fast food joints around your house and what they do with their cooking oil? Apart from filtering the stuff for big particulates you can put the stuff in a diesel engine without any problems, as long as you use a bit of regular diesel from time to time.

To make proper biodiesel esterification is required (simple process, chemicals involved are caustic but not particularly toxic, depending on the alcohol used), but waste vegetable oil can certainly be used as fuel.  Provided the climate isn't such that one can expect snow in any month of the year, and sub-zero temperatures in most of them.  Reminds me... I should take the snow tires off the car this week (srsly).

In the future I may be in a warmer place with a ready supply of deep-fryer oil, but I was mostly speaking in terms of economy - i.e. how long it'd take to pay off the cost of importing by running diesel instead of gas.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

There is no easy answer, but there seems to be a correlation between female literacy and the number of children born per woman, too, so upping the number of literate female will hopefully reduce the number of children born in the next generation.

[anthrobabe]

Talking about how much actual edible food we waste here in the USA- and i'll be specific to the USA because I live here.

I even remember 25-30 years ago being a small girl and being in the kitchen with my grandmother, aunts and mom and being taught how to not waste food. My grandmother had 15 children- so every bit was eaten. What was not edible (say an apple core) was gladly enjoyed by her various farm animals- pigs don't eat garbage per say- oh any hungry animal will eat offal is dying almost but i'm talking food leavings that were not spoiled and were of some value- like apple cores, etc.
To this day I can skin a potato very thinly-- in fact it is more like using a knife to remove the outer layer and not the entire peel at all. Usually I don't peel potatos at all. My apples are not really cored either- just the seeds removed and the bit of stem end.

The amount of food- especially produce that we throw away is appaling-- i've had the great fun to be able to visit with some of the students and faculty that conduct the Tucson Garbage Project (aka garbology 101 aka the archaeology of us). It is stunning what is thrown away. BTW- Dr. Rathje has been doing this work since the 1970's -- the problem did not occur overnight. The answer is not easy.

Naturally I suppose there is always Soylent Green.....

And yes there does seem to be a coorelation between mothers education and birth rate. Also the economic standing as well-- if more babies die in infancy/childhood than live they typically there will be more babies born.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Provided the climate isn't such that one can expect snow in any month of the year, and sub-zero temperatures in most of them. 

I forgot that detail, I guess the car doesn't move if the fuel is solid in the tank, the kind of thing that would never-ever happen around here. 

There is no easy answer, but there seems to be a correlation between female literacy and the number of children born per woman, too, so upping the number of literate female will hopefully reduce the number of children born in the next generation.

That is indeed a nice choice to stop growth (despite some places like the middle east may still be on the middle ages on that respect 100 years forward). Still we may be to many already, and the aging population on the first world has taken the urgency from the problem.
--
The other day I was listening to an interview with an Indian farmer who was now moving to organic crops. His motivation was purely economical, the cost of seeds, pesticides and fertilizer, and the low[er] prize of his crops made his profits disappear. By going organic not only he had less startup costs but his crop was more valuable (and his yields lower), as a result there was less food for a better prize. The commentary (an criticism made by some monsanto paid lobbiest) is that going organic in large scale would create a shortage of food and more people would go hungry. The words of a corporate mercenary may not carry much value (again think of how much food is wasted today) but there is a grain of truth on the claim, if every farmer went organic there would probably be shortages of food and likely pressure to increase deforestation as a consequence. That in itself tells me that we may have reached and overshot the population that is sustainable without permanent damage to the Earth's ecosystems.

[Aggie]

Provided the climate isn't such that one can expect snow in any month of the year, and sub-zero temperatures in most of them. 

I forgot that detail, I guess the car doesn't move if the fuel is solid in the tank, the kind of thing that would never-ever happen around here. 

Even gasoline engines don't always like to start in the winter. But we are well-prepared for the move to electric vehicles - every long-term parking stall has an electrical outlet for the block heater, so slow-charging shouldn't be a problem.