"Education"

[Aggie]

I found that what I WANTED to do was a totally different field. Yes, I could have been a quite cheerful professional musician (vocalist) or actor (regional theatre, maybe even Broadway, where character actors can actually play roles--NOT film.) But I LOVED my work as a florist. I was GOOD at it, and I SHOULD have been able to earn a living at it. Unfortunately...manual labor. Skilled, artistic, but manual labor, nonetheless.

I'd be a cook if it paid (yes, a few top chef positions pay well, but that ceases to be a cooking job and becomes a HUGE upper management job IMO; if you're not at the very top of the game you don't make much beyond the average cook).  Never got bored of it at the first restaurant I was at, and rarely didn't want to go to work...  and while it's a bit tiring and stressful at times, it was nothing that couldn't be laughed off over an after-work beer.

OTOH, I'm also kicking myself for not finishing a degree straight through when I had the chance (in theory; in real life I must have gone to my tech school for a reason, since I met my bride-to-be in class there).  I am planning to go back I think...  there's a big jump in pay simply for having those letters behind your name, regardless of what the job actually entails.  There's also many, many jobs that are limited to certain educational qualifications, regardless of 'real world' experience, and I am more likely to be able to choose my career direction with a degree, whereas a technologist diploma gets you stuck at a certain level and type of work.

Mind you, the doctors are moving out of this city because they can't make ends meet, so maybe I'm doing OK. 

[ivor]

You're okay Duje, no matter what.

[ivor]

Oh boy!  The irresistible force and the unmovable object meet.   I think I'll retire to my bomb shelter. 

[Alpaca]

Now we just need a perpetual motion machine, and we'll be set.

Mello, if the goal of the modern educational system (mind, I'm going to a private school, so things may be a tad different) is to indoctrinate, then it's not succeeding in that goal, either. Granted, the school demands obedience insofar as a lack of adherence to the student handbook results in penalization. But when it comes to the wider "matrix," as you put it, most of the kids don't need a school to indoctrinate them. They already have obscenely rich parents who desperately don't want to see any change in society, so they can keep their money and their kids can get it afterwards. For the minority who aren't in love with the status quo, however, Tampa Prep's environment is generally open and encouraging.

Yes, we have the rigid structures of subjects and class periods. And (I insist) there's a lack of intelligence in running some aspects of the school, so we end up with a severely flawed system of education. But I know a few people on the Tampa Prep board of directors, including its chairman, and those people have intentions that are uniformly good. And the brand new head of school has intentions that are uniformly good. And so do the overwhelming majority of teachers. And even a couple of the kids do ().

I can't judge if public schools are evil or just incompetent. I was only part of that system from Kindergarten to sixth grade. For Kindergarten and first grade, I went to the local elementary school. I have vague memories from that time, but not enough to judge if the education was insidious. Then, for second and half of third grade, we moved away to Vancouver, Washington, where I went to a public school, and where I again only recollect vague things.

Then, over winter, we moved back to Tampa. I went to school. Skipped a grade into fourth. The dear vice-principle, a woman who resembled an over-boiled cabbage, was vehemently against it, and when she finally acquiesced after my parents ignored her and went to the principle directly, her retort was, "Well, we'll have to keep a close eye on him."

So, then I also got into the academically gifted program within a month, because the AGP teacher, who knew me back from first grade when I was also in the program, saw me standing in the parking lot and basically said, "what the hell are you doing taking the normal classes?" Two interesting things: 1. In first grade, I was allowed to call it the gifted program. When I came back, that was politically incorrect, and the mysterious abbreviation "AGP" had to be used in its place. 2. The vice principle always smiled nervously and painfully broadly whenever she encountered me, and she avoided my mother altogether.

Fourth and fifth grade rolled along merrily, because the gifted program teacher was an absolutely amazing woman. She taught us Algebra in fourth and fifth grade. It was ridiculous. Then came sixth grade. First of all, overcrowding in the middle schools meant that my sixth grade class was one of a few that had classes in a different elementary school. Second, it sucked. My education that year was the mental equivalent of picking my nose. I learned nothing. My parents were livid. And from then on, I went to a private school.

The subtler forms of indoctrination really don't work at that age, I think. I guess they got the "obedience" thing down pretty well, or at least that's how it looked; I have always behaved in class, since I figure having to spend time in school not even pretending to learn would be completely pointless.

That puts me in a position where I can see how severely flawed the educational system is, but I cannot say that it's intentionally so.

P.S. anon1mat0, you posted while I was typing. My tuition = $17,000 per year out of my parents' collective pocket.

[beagle]

Then, over winter, we moved back to Tampa. I went to school. Skipped a grade into fourth. The dear vice-principle, a woman who resembled an over-boiled cabbage, was vehemently against it, and when she finally acquiesced after my parents ignored her and went to the principle directly, her retort was, "Well, we'll have to keep a close eye on him."

I can't speak for the States but that's the nub of the difference between State and Private education in the UK.  Some (emphasise some) state sector teachers view education as an instrument of social equalisation, rather than an attempt to get each child to attain the best of which they are capable.  Such teachers don't get employed in the private sector. 

On the social control thing I suspect both State and Private sector teachers are smart enough not to teach pupils to question authority in all its forms until the final year.

[The Meromorph]

I really think that many people have a very false idea of the influence that environment has on developing attitudes, propensities, and character. Partly because the 'politically correct' model of the human mind insists it's 100%.
It's not even 50%. And the 'environment' that does have an effect is absolutely not controlled in any way by any 'authority'. That includes parents, government, schools and media. None of those have any measurable net effect on the development of people. Except in two very simple ways.
1. Any of those 'authorities' can, and sadly (sometimes/often) do, damage a person, by abuse, neglect, etc.
2. In varying ways, each can 'provide' or affect the make-up of the 'peer group' that universally for all humans is responsible for the mental development not provided by genetics (~50%) or chance (~30%).

Steven Pinker explains it very cogently in The Blank Slate (and provides in excess of 50 pages of citations to the reasearch).

So however much the Prussians thought they were achieving, however much any Americans thought they could achieve, what an 'education system' can do is provide, or fail to provide, a good education.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

I can only speak for the public schools in my state, but they don't really mean to hurt people. They have certain state and national guidelines they have to follow, and I rather think that most were never class room teachers, since they never manage to do things in a sensible manner. They seem to be very ignorant of class room reality.

Although, I do think they over emphasize certain things. The district I attended put a lot of money into technology (there were enough laptops for almost all 2,800 student at my high school) and scads more into sports (we had the best pool for a hundred miles, and they're apparently planning a multi-million dollar stadium).

Private school don't seem to be much better. The private Catholic and Christian schools around here are ridden with scandals, drugs, and racism, and the kids I knew/know that attended those schools don't seem any better off academically for it.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Are you implying that private schools only exist to make sure your kids hang out with the *right* crowd?


Seriously though, I would think that in order to better target education to children (according to their talents/abilities) you would need either a very big or a very small scale.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

Oh, not at all, Zono. Not at all. 

How would the large scale work?

[Alpaca]

Private schools don't need to be religious to be drug-infested. Mine's secular. Instead of being full of religious fanatics who are also rich, it's full of rich kids who are intent on proving it in every way they can.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

How would the large scale work?

Close to how an university works (and possibly of the same size). Given that it doesn't make economic sense to have one teacher per student, you would need to qualify each student in each subject according to their ability/potential/will. That way the kids that are good doing math will be in the correct level with kids that more or less learn at their rate. If that same kid hates literature he would only go to the basic or mandatory levels (if any). If a kid does poorly in a specific subject then he is held back only in that subject while he keeps going on the others. In the end in order to graduate you would need certain core subjects (knowing how to read, write, basic civics, everyday math, etc) and the rest would shorten your stay in college.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

Ah, that makes sense.

'Paca, we don't have a non-religious private school around here that I know of, actually. So I was speaking from my expirence. But I understand what you mean.