The Labservative Party

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I don't know if this classifies as serious but it certainly is politics: lo and behold, the Labservative Party:
[youtube=625,350]weWe-bsZDQY[/youtube]

[Griffin NoName]

I think it counts as Serious. Unfortunately.

[Swatopluk]

Was there a Graham Chapman face for a moment?

[Sibling DavidH]

I think it counts as Serious. Unfortunately.

'Fraid so.
I won't be voting for any of them, I'll go UKIP and register my protest against the EU. In North Herefordshire the official Tory Candidate would win by 12 - 14,000 votes even if it was a stuffed baboon.

[beagle]

I think it counts as Serious. Unfortunately.

'Fraid so.
I won't be voting for any of them, I'll go UKIP and register my protest against the EU. In North Herefordshire the official Tory Candidate would win by 12 - 14,000 votes even if it was a stuffed baboon.

Me too, and Cambridgeshire likewise as regards the effect. I've always voted Tory in generals back to the Blessed Margaret, but Brown and Cameron (and Clegg) are interchangeable as far as I'm concerned after the Lisbon lies, so it's UKIP in all now.

[Sibling DavidH]

Me too, and Cambridgeshire likewise as regards the effect. I've always voted Tory in generals back to the Blessed Margaret, but Brown and Cameron (and Clegg) are interchangeable as far as I'm concerned after the Lisbon lies, so it's UKIP in all now.

Hoorah, a man after my own heart.
In my case, I would be in favour of a good  European Union which really did further friendship and understanding between nations.  But that's not what we have: this corrupt, bureaucratic and unaccountable EU causes much more strife than harmony and is a vast waste of resources.  I've said it before here - how can you call the UK democratic when no major party will give a voice to the majority who want out of the EU?  UKIP is not much use, but by voting for it I add one to the hard statistics.

[Griffin NoName]

I don't know what I'll vote. I could never vote UKIP. I feel disenfranchised but it is a bad sin not to vote at all.

[Sibling DavidH]

There really ought to be a tick-box for none of the above. 

[Aggie]

I've voted for that - we had a No candidate in my riding in one provincial election.  No real party, just a stand-in for the 'none of the above' vote.  They stated that should they win (acknowledged to be impossible) they'd just keep holding elections until the other parties started to actually provide what the public wanted to see.

[Opsa]

You mean there's hope?

Where's my fainting couch...

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Ahhh... isn't democracy great?

For a few years now I've been painfully aware that while single governments can do lots of damage (dubya anyone?) parties rarely differ while in power. What is currently passed as "democracy" this days is just a collection of interests with access to power trying to steer a tanker, kicking and screaming, while navigating a mine field. Because of that it is impossible to have drastic changes in any direction; as a result we have this:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/extremeright

(sadly they haven't made a graph for this years elections and UKIP doesn't show up).

Note how Labour and Tories are very close to each other, an equivalent graph could be made for Democrats and Republicans in the US*, because a significant part of the funds for each party come from the same pockets, that is, corporate pockets, which makes their interests a priority (which will be significantly worse after the recent SCOTUS ruling for those of us living in the US).

There is obviously a caveat, if we had something closer to a true democracy, the mob would rule and given the lack of education and common sense from your average citizen we would frequently confront a number of controversial if not plain evil measures**.


*a few weeks ago my feelings about the Democratic party were sinking rapidly as the healthcare bill seemed to tank as congresscritters talked one thing and acted a different one. If the difference between parties is rhetoric what's the point? Apparently I wasn't alone in my feelings and they decided to save the bill in the 11th hour. It reminded me the attributed quote from Churchill claiming that the US would do the right thing when all other alternatives were extinguished.

** Switzerland is a good example, in general it works because the education level is relatively high, nevertheless laws to prevent the construction of islamic buildings or preventing immigrants from citizenship for years show the inherent problems of that method.

[beagle]

(sadly they haven't made a graph for this years elections and UKIP doesn't show up).

The media like to portray UKIP as off-the-scale right. However they're not the ones using lies, deception, tried and tested 1930s ratcheting techniques, and rigged or ignored referenda to try and build an unaccountable empire from the Urals to the Atlantic.

Last time I checked the Greens weren't too keen on the EU either, and they're not usually considered *very* far right.  It's sort of interesting how the EU has been sold as a liberal project, despite ignoring or bypassing  public opinion at every turn. Goebbels could take lessons...

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

The bigger the entity, the bigger the bureaucracy, the bigger (quantitatively) the corruption, that much is true, the question is one of influence and negotiating leverage, do you believe that it's easier to negotiate with China for the UK or for Europe as an aggregate?

Obviously I don't live there so my views are likely biased, but I do see an advantage for a bigger weight coming from a part of the world where local pettiness overrules the common good everyday (IMO the Spanish speaking countries would be far better of if we were one country instead of 18). Certainly you lose some things but you also gain others.

(not that I'm going to convince you anyway... )

[beagle]

... that much is true, the question is one of influence and negotiating leverage, do you believe that it's easier to negotiate with China for the UK or for Europe as an aggregate?

I've no problem with the EU as a trade body (the EEC), indeed that was what the UK was sold the last and only time we got a vote on it. Ever since it's become apparent that was just one of the many deceptions.

(not that I'm going to convince you anyway...  )

I think the West Country (DavidH-land) and Cambridgeshire are two of the more Eurosceptic regions. You see big UKIP banners in fields here, and UKIP easily beat Labour and the Liberals in the Euro elections. Even if they get nowhere in the general election I'll still have the satisfaction of not voting for parties which blatantly broke their promises of a vote on the constitution/treaty (i.e. all of the big three).

[Sibling DavidH]

not that I'm going to convince you anyway

But I am convinced!  I really wish we had a decent European Union.  The point is that on balance I think the drawbacks of the present arrangement far outweigh its undoubted benefits.