Chatty and Dan's Protest Garden

[Sibling Chatty]

So, the Fed'ral Gubmint has decide that the way to fund the Children's Healthcare Initiative Program is to increase the tax on bulk-purchase tobacco by 2,000%. In other words, the po' folk that roll their own ciggies to save money just got screwed over BIGTIME. (Dan't $17,50 a pound natural, no chemicals added tobacco will soon cost about $45 a pound, if you can find it. Many sellers are just closing down.)

We have a 1/3 acre lot next to us, and some extra room on this lot behind the barn. We're anticipating being tobacco farmers soon... This should be fun!! We'll have to fence the area because of the deer that roam free in 'town', but with a 60 day growing time and some careful planting (and crop rotation, on our tiny scale) he should be able to grow more than enough for himself.

He's also considering making his own beer...

Hell, if I can remember all the steps for fried pork rinds (chichiarrones) we could be a one-stop Red Neck Leisure Shop!!

Seriously, he's gonna grow tobacco, I'm growing onions and a few other veggies, and we're contemplating putting up a small greenhouse to start the plants in. I have 6 different plans that my Dad drew up years ago, and I know how to frame out a greenhouse...I've done it before.

Lazy time is over. The budget's tight, and we've gotta loosen in. Grow yer own tabaccy is one way. (Not smoking is another, but it's the ONLY vice the man has, and he's not ready to quit.)

Anybody have tobacco growing experience?

[Bruder Cuzzen]

 I'm not certain , but I think growing tobacco without a license is illegal up here , so I have little information to offer .
I did grow a plant of the tobacco family , I just watered the thing and it flowered for me .
Wikipedia has a fine article on the subject , I don't remember any details on nurturing the plants though .

[Aggie]

I wonder if the deer will bother it?  Nicotine is quite toxic when ingested (IIRC, about 3 cigs worth will kill an adult).

Hmm... no tobacco growing experience here.  They mostly grow the wacky kind back home.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

... and we're contemplating putting up a small greenhouse to start the plants in. I have 6 different plans that my Dad drew up years ago, and I know how to frame out a greenhouse...I've done it before.

Be sure to check out the many new "window" material that's become available lately.  There's loads of "quick and dirty" plastic films that work in the immediate, letting you frame in solid panes at your leisure.  These plastic films are quite strong, if mounted with sufficient edge-support.   If you use wooden framing, it becomes even easier.....

Just a thought.

Best of luck, by the way:  I hope you stick it to the man.   

As for growing the stuff?  Are not the natural varieties (as opposed to the current genetically manipulated stuff that's in modern ciggies) basically weeds?   Who needs to worry [much] about the care and feeding of weed-type plants, other than to think the heard, prune the competition and such.   The usual simple stuff. 

I've heard great things about coffee grinds as natural anti-pest for gardens.  Or just dump it into your compost, which if you're gonna go green, you'll need anyway.... right?

Besides, if you've ever read Niven and Pournelle's novel Footfall, you'll find there are all sorts of uses for a well maintained compost heap than getting rid of old coffee grinds...

[Opsa]

Chatty, I think this is a splendid idea! As always, you rock.

I attempted to grow sacred tobacco (nicotiana rustica) last year for ceremonial (not casual smoking- this stuff's seriously high octane!) use. I grew it from seed in a raised bed. Since I bought the seed from a west coast supplier, I think the plants sulked a bit here in the east. However, I did get a few plants, which flowered and set seed. This year I found some east coast seed (Delaware sacred) and have started the seeds with tomatoes, lettuce, etc. on my windowsill. I also started some saved seeds from the N. rustica. Well, they're all sprouting like crazy! I found the plants and the flowers absolutely charming and am hoping they'll do well.

When I was researching, I found a few sites that gave great advice about growing regular smoking tobacco.

This guy gives his personal experiences with tobacco, sage and sweetgrass, including curing: http://members.tripod.com/windthruherhair/tobacco.html

This University of Florida site might be good, since it is likely to be in or close to your planting zone: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA260

Here is a place that sells seeds and plants: http://www.newhopeseed.com/tobacco/

These guys are serious growers; http://www.ryomagazine.com/july/review.htm

From what I understand, it is legal to grow. I think you need a license to have a large commercial farm. I'd check your local law to be safe.

[Sibling Chatty]

Thanks all!

Bob, I only do the plastics on houses, well, and shadecloth  as needed... and have started researching which one to use to best 'work' the sun exposure. Don't wanna burn the seedlings!

I e-mailed Dan the links, Opsa, and he's found a site with a book, DVD, and starter seeds (book/DVD covers legalities in US, greenhousing and instructions plus Q&A on problems) for under $100, plus a source for a few additives, AND seeds for growing pipe tobacco and the flavorings for it as well.

My small attempts at composting are going to have to grow, which means a deerproof place to compost. Deer near here are very fond of leftovers...

[ivor]

I heard that if you spray things down with tobacco soaked water the deer won't eat it.  I somehow doubt that's true.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

My small attempts at composting are going to have to grow, which means a deerproof place to compost. Deer near here are very fond of leftovers...

I hadn't thought of deer as a compost-pest, mostly those guys seem to be garden-pests.... 

Some hardware cloth over the top of the heap works pretty well:   you can start modest with a very, very simple compost heap.  I had one of these for years, and all I put in it was grass clippings, dog droppings, and mom tossed out the kitchen scraps.  We never turned it , we just let it pile up, layer after layer all summer.  Come spring, *then* we'd dig down to the bottom layer, remove that to the garden for tilling under, and replace the top-most layer (usually sun-dried grass, kept the smell off, wasn't unpleasant to look at, etc).

Basically, it was a 4-sided wooden box, roughly 5 foot square or so.  Was about 4 feet tall.  The "walls" were simple board slats (spaced apart) with 1/2" mesh hardware cloth firmly fastened on the inside (wooden battens screwed down along the perimeter of the hardware cloth).   There was no bottom, the compost sat directly on the dirt.  The front was held by 2 sets of loose-pin hinges.  Simple-- just remove the pins from the hinges and the whole thing comes loose.  The other three sides were supported by posts sunk into the ground, and the back was partially supported by a brick retaining wall.

We just dumped green waste in on the top haphazardly.  No careful layering, no fork-mixing, none of that.  Just dump the grass clippings in, toss the food scraps on top, etc. I'd let it pile up all summer, and well into the fall.

Then, as I said, come spring, I'd remove the front "gate" and begin digging.... I'd remove the topmost layer, setting that aside and underneath, at the bottom, was nice, rich organic material, suitable for tilling directly into the garden soil.   And earthworms.....oh! A fisherman's treasure...except I just let'em be-- allergic to fresh fish.

Anyway, once I'd mined the bottommost layer, I'd replace the topmost I'd set aside earlier-- no special thing here, either:  just dump it in with a shovel.   Usually I had a fresh load of grass clippings to go on top, too...

The whole thing was directly in the sun, so the kitchen scraps dried out quickly, and were never a problem.  Besides, mowing was a weekly task, and they would soon be covered by clippings...

Anyway, that basic design could easily have a top on it, hinged at the back, made of a wooden frame, with perhaps a diagonal stiffener, and stretch 1/2" mesh hardware cloth around it.  You could have a chain and a side-post to hold it up for easy loading.  The weight should be enough to keep the deer out... make it a tad oversize so it overhangs the 4 sides.  Heck, you could even use a rope and a pulley going over a tall post at the back, then some concrete blocks hanging down as counter-weights.  Easy-peasy.   A screen-hook holds it closed...  and it would either open by itself, or with just a finger...

I like easy myself.... I built a counter-weight for a dog-house "lid" once.  The house was very large, but really needed annual cleaning, so I hinged the insulated roof-- it turned out to weigh about 70 pounds, though (insulation, sheathing, shingles, frame, etc) so a wire-rope over a pulley mounted on a tall post at the hinge side.  Concrete blocks made a counter-weight.  Actually-- I had a couple of posts, and the block dropped between them, the pulley mounted on a longish axle.  Anyway, the counter-weight made the lid appear to weigh about 10 pounds-- just enough to keep it shut, but easy to open in the spring, for spring cleaning.

That was the house I went to High School in, back in the 70's.  I haven't had a compost heap since-- no garden.  No time. 

*sigh*

[Sibling Chatty]

One of the neighbors is going to drag over the compost box he made for his wife to use for HER garden...right before she left him! He's not going to use it, since he doesn't cook or eat at home anymore... (He CAN, he used to do almost all the cooking for the two of them. He just won't, and I think the compost box is a reminder of her, somehow. She certainly reminds me of rotting things...) OOOPS!! Was that rude??

So, one down, several others to go. Tobacco drying kiln may be in the offing, although an Easy Bake Oven would work.

[Opsa]

Be sure and give that man a cigar! That was nice of him.

I'll bet any small non-cooled house in that Texas heat will do as a kiln.

In related news: our local 7-11 was robbed the other night. The theif only stole a bunch of cigarettes and a lighter! So I guess he was desperate, too.

[Bluenose]

Besides, if you've ever read Niven and Pournelle's novel Footfall, you'll find there are all sorts of uses for a well maintained compost heap than getting rid of old coffee grinds...

< >

One of my all time faves.  I always like the bit when they're about to  launch the Archangel and there's a discussion when one of the crew says something about sitting around waiting for an atomic bomb to go off under their asses and then there's a line about "and then an atomic bomb went off under Harry Reddington's ass".  Gets me every time, I just love it!

I think I must have read this book half a dozen times.  Must be about time I dug it out and gave it another spin.  Thanks for reminding me!

</ >

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Besides, if you've ever read Niven and Pournelle's novel Footfall, you'll find there are all sorts of uses for a well maintained compost heap than getting rid of old coffee grinds...

< >

One of my all time faves.  I always like the bit when they're about to  launch the Archangel and there's a discussion when one of the crew says something about sitting around waiting for an atomic bomb to go off under their asses and then there's a line about "and then an atomic bomb went off under Harry Reddington's ass".  Gets me every time, I just love it!

I think I must have read this book half a dozen times.  Must be about time I dug it out and gave it another spin.  Thanks for reminding me!

</ >

I was hoping someone would enjoy how the compost heap played a role in helping Humans to win the first interstellar war.... if you don't remember, you will get it near the end of the story.

The part I like best about the Archangel sequence, (aside from how Harry becomes a genuine hero...) was the comment:  "God is knocking at the door, and he wants in bad."

[ivor]

I heard somebody was talking about making Footfall a movie.  They'll probably ruin it though.

[anthrobabe]

Way to Go!!!

It is said that Deer do not like human hair--- so get the local barber to save some sweepings for you-it's worth a try.
Some plants said to deter deer (and other pests)
Black Eyed Susan
Prairie dropseed
Foxglove beardtongue
Little bluestem
Nodding onion (which can become a pest plant itself)

Also some old folks swore by milk powder sprinkled about. (messy and possibly smelly)

I have also read-- not sure of source- that Irish Spring slivers in old pantyhose is also a deterrent to animal pests-- the hose to allow the air and scent to circulate and keep the soap off the ground.

We in the south likes our home remedies-- any way it might not be an issue at all.

Now as to Texas DPS deterrant-- not sure 'bout that--- maybe some beer in the tank? (if you had a stock tank available and accessible) --LOL--

I think the tobacco tax applies to sales-- probably- hopefully not personal use. But not sure.

[Sibling Chatty]

Seed and growing/curing/etc instructions ordered.

Best deal came with assorted kinds of seed, so he's going to grow 3 cigarette types, a pipe tobacco type for our friend Stuart, and a wrapper leaf that's supposed to be mild enough for cigarettes, not just cigars.

Gotta go buy some gro-pots and potting soil so we can start seeds ASAP.

If this works well...barley and hops are next.

I'm not even going for the Redneck Heaven joke and talkin' about how to make Pork Rinds...

[Opsa]

Great, let us know how they do, willya?

The Delaware Sacred Nicotiana I started on my windowsill has done GREAT! And the seeds I saved from last year's Nicotiana Rustica seem to have ALL sprouted, as well. I am going to harden them off in the mini-greenhouse starting tomorrow, so they can go out into the garden by the end of April.