Is it time to leave for Mars?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

They will downplay the situation because:

a) They don't want a panic. This is the kind of thing that will affect any economy in a serious way and harm millions in panic while the threat is proportionally minuscule.
b) They don't really understand the problem (getting there).
c) The cost of securing ports of entry and hospitals is materially enormous.
d) There is no vaccine against incompetence and -surprise- that also happens in the 1st world.
e) They have confidence in their means (ability to track and isolate potentials vectors).
f) It's what governments do when they don't want the public involved (as opposed to the prelude to war).
And more importantly:
g)  No matter how competent and clever it is impossible to prevent all cases, which means that having 20 deaths from this is perfectly possible. If Nigeria and Senegal, which have a drastically inferior infrastructure (and I'm sure incompetence is higher) were able to control their cases, the worst prepared country in the 1st world (Spain comes to mind in the current circumstances) can control it's cases.

This scenario (cases reaching the 1st world) is something that has been known as a possibility for a long time and some measures had been taken for such event, if those are all the ones needed or that the threat was taken seriously is a different issue, but at this point I doubt there is country in the world not taking notice.

Besides, even if your lovely government wants to dismantle the social infrastructure, they have to take care of themselves, so the immediate measures will be taken. A different tale is what happens when the net is gone and a more virulent sickness appears among the poor, one would hope they take notice of what is happening in Liberia as an example, but their minds are to centered in their navel to understand the long term consequences.

[The Meromorph]

I don't know if you've heard about the nurse in Dallas, who got Ebola through caring for the guy who flew in.
In particular, I don't know if you're getting any of the details reported...

As far as I can tell, in regular 'Community' hospitals like the one in Dallas, the 'isolation' facilities are a 'LEVEL 2' facility, and the 'personal protective equipment'(PPE) issued is also 'LEVEL 2' (gowns, masks, 'Shower caps', gloves, shoe covers, large face shields).
The hospitals used before this man, are 'LEVEL 4' facilities and the PPE is all Level 4 (Tyvec space suits, closed circuit breathing apparatus, two different types of gloves, etc.).
The CDC Teams, and the medical teams sent out to West Africa, also use Level 4.
Hell, even the commercial company hired to clean out the Ebola mans apartment of the contaminated bedding and clothing wore Level 4 gear.
The 'training' provided in the use of the Level 2 gear to the hospital staff consisted of a 7-page memo.

If a medical research facility was handling Ebola and used anything less than Level 4, they would be shut down immediately and people would be prosecuted.

[Swatopluk]

Besides, even if your lovely government wants to dismantle the social infrastructure, they have to take care of themselves, so the immediate measures will be taken. A different tale is what happens when the net is gone and a more virulent sickness appears among the poor, one would hope they take notice of what is happening in Liberia as an example, but their minds are to centered in their navel to understand the long term consequences.

A tax (and budget) cut a day keeps the doctors away 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I don't know if you've heard about the nurse in Dallas

We're talking about Texas here, although to tell the truth I'm sure most hospitals in the US (and likely the 1st world) are not properly prepared to take ebola cases, plus the 'for profit' mantra of healthcare here will make it more unlikely to move beyond the proverbial memo because the 'demand' doesn't justify the 'expense'.

[Griffin NoName]

No, the use of LEVEL 2 instead of LEVEL 4 PPE has not been reported here. Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I should email my MP* and ask what the hospitals here have  

*my "political agitation organisation" is forever asking me to email her on a variety of silly subjects (as well as some important).

When we had the first UK ebola case flown in they were taken to the Royal Free - a major London hospital - amidst media reporting that it had the right facilities and implying without actually saying that nowhere else did. Then mysteriously a few weeks later, the Health Minister announced, I think, 5 more hospitals with suitable isolation rooms....... It would be interesting to know if the Royal Free has Level 4 PPE but the others have LEVEL 2 PPE - that might explain how the stories changed........ because during those few weeks the threat became more apparent. Of course, could be any reason, like persuading the city councils to open their gates to ebola cases. (Actually I think York still has city gates... but not in use.)

The "few" cases has now mysteriously morphed into "a handful" - which I make 5. That's good !

One has to hope that the govt. will realise that having gone to Eton and being multi-millionaires does not prevent them catching ebola unless they use the bunker (war room under London) and don't let anyone in. Of course, if UKIP doesn't get rid of Cameron, perhaps this will (politically, I don't mean he will die of ebola, just be incompetent). G-d forbid they should give IDS at the DWP any involvement.

With only 6 months to go to elections, Cameron probably thinks someone else will be dealing with it all anyway  

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

According to wiki there are only 9 Level 4 facilities in the UK and 14 in the US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level#List_of_BSL-4_facilities

[Griffin NoName]

Well that is comforting.

I notice that Romania is the only eastern block EU country to have any and Sweden the only Scandanavian country.

[The Meromorph]

The CDC is saying that there are only 4 BSL 4 hospitals in the US (The others are research labs.)
They have just changed their recommendations to send all confirmed cases to one of those 4 immediately.
There are very disturbing reports from DALLAS that the nurses are saying that a supervisor told them that the simple Face Shields were unnecessary 
And that the separation of the 'Isolation Ward' from the rest of the Hospital consists of a plastic curtain on a curtain rail ! 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

So shared rooms are now "Isolation Ward Ready"? 

[Griffin NoName]

Actually, thinking about the UK ones, two are Porton Down, which is a research facility.............. so less than 9, and I think there are others listed which are too. Maybe the figure of 5 I thought I'd heard is more accurate.

The CDC is saying that there are only 4 BSL 4 hospitals in the US (The others are research labs.)
They have just changed their recommendations to send all confirmed cases to one of those 4 immediately.
There are very disturbing reports from DALLAS that the nurses are saying that a supervisor told them that the simple Face Shields were unnecessary 
And that the separation of the 'Isolation Ward' from the rest of the Hospital consists of a plastic curtain on a curtain rail ! 

So...........ignorance of how to catch it is not restricted to 3rd world people...........

[Swatopluk]

The Rachel Maddow show had some more details on the Dallas case (watching the podcast right now). The way that case got handled in Dallas verges on criminal, and it will be a small miracle, if only two nurses catched the disease and not several of the ER patients he got left with unattended for hours or those that the nurses cared for in parallel with the first ebola patient (not to forget the unsecured pile of waste 'to the ceiling').

[The Meromorph]

What the Dallas hospital admins seem to have not been thinking was.

A nurse trained in BSL 4 protocols and with BSL4  PPE , in a BSL 4 facility would be regarding 'bodily fluids' as the lethal pathogens they are for Ebola Patients.                   

Any 'ordinary' nurse  has had years of training and experience with ordinary 'body fluids'.
This 'everyday hero', when encountering sheets and gowns, and suchlike, covered in shit, and/or blood, and/or vomit, 'Sucks it up [I run for someone else to do it], then Picks it up, then pitches it in the laundry bin', which with Ebola  Patients is an immediate disaster.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

It turns out that while the hospital is one of the best in prenatal care and coronary diseases, it's abysmally bad at emergency care where the general order seems to be "get rid of the patients ASAP"; this BTW is not a fluke (waiting for two hours in ER is not the exception but the rule) which is surprising considering the outrageous amounts of money hospitals charge for an ER visit.

Capitalism at work.

[Griffin NoName]

.........and the "doctors" said it was ok for the 2nd nurse to fly by plane with a fever.............. as I said in my first post, stupid, stupid, stupid. Granted most of the 132 passengers would not be exposed to infectious body fluids, what bout ones she brushed against going up or down the isle, and I certainly wouldn't want to be the person to be in her seat on the next flight. It seems to have been several more flights prior to decomtaminating the plane, so how many potential contacts? Are any but the 132 being chased up? A handful of cases? Score 0 on my intelligence scale.

I have my flu jab on Tuesday.

[The Meromorph]

Latest scary thought:
Though there are 4 LEVEL 4 hospitals in the USA, They have a total of 9 beds, of which 4 are already in use.
That leaves only 5 beds available for any new cases.

It might be possible to add perhaps 5 more, with sufficient money, and 'borrowing' skilled CDC staff...


When you recall that they are isolating and tracking 77 people who had medical contact with the original patient under LEVEL 2 conditions (exactly like the two nurses already infected).

If only 20% of them turn out to be infected, there won't be enough places to put them...

It could turn into a full-fledged outbreak, in the USA...