World View of United States

[Swatopluk]

Concerning shelf life, German luxury car manufacturers were opposed to installing anti-theft devices because a stolen car meant a new sale (plus likely extra spare parts). Heute gestohlen, morgen in Polen (stolen today, in Poland to-morrow) became something of a popular motto.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

At the moment Mexico has a very large problem with the US on that front because practically all the weapons used by the cartels were purchased in the US and imported illegally to Mexico. Mexicans can legally have guns but it is a heavily regulated area that in practice makes extremely difficult to have a concealed-carry permit. I bet the amount of guns going south is at least five times larger than going north.

[Swatopluk]

And the NRA fights tooth and nail against any attempt to do anything about the gun-running over the US/Mexcican border.

[pieces o nine]

And the NRA fights tooth and nail against any attempt to do anything about the gun-running over the US/Mexcican border.

Well of course. As their more paranoid supporters always say, "If it becomes criminal to own guns, only criminals will own guns."  Not that the leadership subversively fuel that very outcome in order to make a sale...     

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

All excellent points. 

What we really need?  Are automatic expiration dates on guns..... in that they automatically disintegrate after a couple of years (used or not).  That way, the greedy b*****ds that make them still get obscene profits, and the paranoids can keep doing what they love, without running out of space:  buy more guns.

[pieces o nine]

I'm going to add a little plug for Gorman Bechard's The Second Greatest Story Ever Told.  I've had my copy for almost 20 years now, and have re-read it several times. As an armchair editor, I give this one a B- for presentation, but A+ for concept.

Spoiler: the NRA is part of the plot. A *key* part of the plot.  
It's one man's concept of what a saner approach to gun ownership would look like in the US.

_{Edited to correct the link.}

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Thanks, Pieces -- added to my "books to buy" wishlist. 

[Bruder Cuzzen]

My view of the US ?

I''ve only been to South Beach Florida. I came across few Americans , everyone was a tourist . The few I met were young drifters working for cash for my boss at the time ,opening up a gay clothing store. I was not allowed to work butI was permitted to supervise while my two superiors went shopping for stuff  , local labour , contractors and good restaurants. So I'm stuck in this beat up ole art deco building , getting hit on every day by gay guys while those two cruised the town. I thought they were bonkers but we were treated quite nicely ... I like South Beach .

I thought everyone was great , half the Cuban lads had handguns ... they were a fun bunch , but I was a tourist and ignorant of the city beyond the beach. All the bars covering doors and windows alarmed me and I thought every body must be armed.

Then the hurricane warning came and I thought again .

People are so human , Yanks are people too.
I watch AFV with Tom Bergeron so I believe this to be true 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

South Beach is a crazy place (and half the Cubans are indeed crazy...) .
---
In the many places I've been in this country the closest I got to the stereotypical US was a time in which they closed a portion of the highway connecting Buffalo to Cleveland and my wife and I had to use a secondary road that led us to a small town in Pennsylvania where we stopped to get something to eat. The only thing open was a bar and we felt truly foreign. The place had the low lighting, pool table, white guys drinking beer, the posters, etc.
---
Interestingly enough, we had relatively similar experience in a little store in a little town in the outskirts of Milan, where we sat down to get a sandwich and we had the eyes of the locals on us as if we came from a different planet (same thing in PA BTW).

[Aggie]

The last time I was in the US (only time as an adult) I was in northern Idaho.  I found that Americans lived up to their reputation as friendly and welcoming people. I did run into one fairly stereotypical American man who'd I'd wager dollars to donuts liked his guns while waiting for the outhouse at a campsite; he was an older gentleman in a cowboy hat who said to me "From Canada? Well, you're in God's Country now." with the implication that I better walk straight and behave.

If I was a cheekier sort, I would have asked him innocently "Aren't they all God's countries?"...  but he might have shot me.

I don't recall seeing a gun that entire trip (perhaps a rifle or two in a truck gun rack? That used to be a common sight here when I was growing up).

Guns were very visibly ubiquitous in the Philippines, however, with many gas stations, convenience stores, banks and sometimes retail shops in urban areas having armed guards posted out front. We felt safer because of it, actually...  on at least two occasions we ran for the nearest guard with a shotgun to protect us from some mentally unwell people threatening us  (both in Puerto Princessa). The bank there had a large sign out front PLEASE LEAVE YOUR FIREARMS WITH THE GUARD.  Guns were certainly visible and apparently carried by citizens.  However, the numbers don't really seem to compare to the US (data from http://www.gunpolicy.org/):

The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.8 firearms per 100 people

The rate of private gun ownership in the Philippines is 4.7 firearms per 100 people

The rate of private gun ownership in Canada is 23.8 firearms per 100 people

So, my own country has far more guns than the Philippines, yet they are less visible. Guns over there seemed to be a visible deterrent...  show that you have a gun and maybe you won't have to use it. I didn't spend enough time in the country or especially in highly-populated areas to find out whether gun crime was a regular thing, but the only time we got a gun pulled on us was because my friend was goofing around and jumped a wall, startling a guard. Even with some of the semi-shady situations we put ourselves into in Manila, we were much more concerned about having our bags snatched or having something slipped in our food than being mugged at gunpoint.  


There is certainly a cultural component that goes beyond the numbers with regards to guns.  I know a few gun nuts here, but I'd say based on knowing these guys that they are drawn to the power of firearms but generally don't obsess or fantasize about the human-killing power of them. Most prefer to go up in the bush and blow the hell out of an old stump. I've no doubt that in a potentially violent situation (say, a home invasion), these guys would turn first to their firearms, but I can't see them doing so to settle a dispute with another person.  I could say I've got the same attitude about sharp objects, which are cheaper, easier to acquire, easier to maintain and almost as threatening as a firearm (albeit much less prone to causing deadly accidents).  Having a machete by the bed "just in case" doesn't mean I'd ever be likely to run amok with it.

I do think there is something in the American cultural consciousness that obsesses about guns as human-killing machines. That's by no means universal, but it is part of the cultural mythology of America, and it is something that perhaps needs to be acknowledged in order to deal with it.

I think its telling that roughly 1/2 of suicides in the US are by gun, compared to roughly 1/6 of suicides in Canada. How we choose to harm ourselves may be as telling as any other metric about our attitudes to guns. Then again, perhaps guns are generally a method of choice for suicides, and it's the availability that leads to the numbers. It's much harder to blow your brains out with a long gun than with a handgun, and the latter are hard to come by in Canada.

[Opsa]

That would have freaked me out a bit.

I wonder if the high ratio of guns to U.S. Americans is because those that own them often own quite a few. I was surprised to see how many guns my husband's father had in his collection. There were easily 30. Some were historic, from wars. Others were just target rifles. There was a b-b gun, too.

Gave me the crawlies. I was glad to see them go.

[Aggie]

We had about 6 around the house when I was a kid; with the exception of one .22 handgun which Dad turned in a long time ago, they were all working guns used for hunting.  I got my first hunting rifle (.22) for my 10th birthday, but it was not to be touched unless going out target shooting or hunting with Dad. I was allowed unrestricted access to a pellet gun, but only for backyard target shooting. We were indoctrinated very young that guns were very dangerous and not to be EVER pointed at a person, whether loaded or not. To be honest, at that time neither the guns nor the ammo was locked up, but you JUST DIDN'T play with the guns. Any time I did pick up a gun I was taught to check immediately that it was unloaded; if it was loaded, the safety was kept on. I don't think we generally even kept a cartridge chambered while hunting; safety came before worrying about whether the animals would hear you load a shell.

[Opsa]

Smart folks you got there, Aggie.

[Aggie]

You've got to be, around guns. I think that as a parent, I'd be very hesitant about letting my kids have toy guns (except Nerf or water guns and the like, which have got so fantastical that they rarely resemble real weapons these days). Guns aren't toys, and pretending to kill people shouldn't be fun.

Actually, I've probably mentioned this before, but the current crop of ultra-realistic military simulator video games (which are blatantly used as recruiting tools by the US military) scare the bejeesus out of me. My buddies have started playing these things, and I'm disinclined to hang out when they are playing them. I actually refuse to play, myself (I generally turn down playing hockey too, but that's because I suck at it ). I'll take a stab at some of the more lighthearted games, but ones set in realistic, human-on-human combat zones where your bonuses allow you to call in drone strikes, killer robots and K9 attack squads? Eeek! Too much for me!

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

As someone who frequently plays first person shooters, I have an issue with the demonization of video games every time an incident like this happens. I agree that certain violent games shouldn't be played without guidance or sold freely to children, but not only I don't feel the sudden urge to go shoot someone after I play, nor the statistics suggest so, for instance, The Netherlands has a very high rate of video game purchases but their gun related violence is particularly low.

Yes, there is a culture that glamorizes guns, but in my view, it isn't so much that movies and video games promote that culture, but reflect it and even then, the same movies that play in the States are played everywhere else without the same effects. If your pipes leak do you blame those who take showers or the pipes themselves?