Uprisings

[Aggie]

I'm pondering what can be read of the uprisings going on in the Mediterranean and Yemen at the moment, and wondering whether it's the result of an informed populace that's able to compare their country to the rest of the world.  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this...

The one that gladdens my heart the most is actually Italy, where 10,000+ women are in the streets protesting Berlusconi.  Excellent!  He is scum, in my less-than-humble opinion. 

[Swatopluk]

Italy seems to be especially rich in this type traditionally. 'Renaissance men'. But the old ones at least sponsored the arts.

[Aggie]

Yes?  Did they usually rig the justice system to prevent themselves from being prosecuted, and have near-complete control of the media as well?

Perhaps he's got some redeeming qualities, but I certainly haven't been trying too hard to look for them.

[Sibling DavidH]

To my mind, protesting against Berlusconi is entirely justified but Italy's not the place I'm keeping my eye on.  The scary one, to me, is Egypt.  Hosni Mubarrak has been an unpleasant tyrant, but like Sadam Hussein or the old Shah, he has kept the Islamists at bay.  In a few days we may see Egypt going down the same road as Iran or Iraq.  War with Israel would then be next on the list.

[Griffin NoName]

I'd been wondering about starting a thread on this but not knowing what to make of it all.

[Aggie]

To my mind, protesting against Berlusconi is entirely justified but Italy's not the place I'm keeping my eye on.  The scary one, to me, is Egypt.  Hosni Mubarrak has been an unpleasant tyrant, but like Sadam Hussein or the old Shah, he has kept the Islamists at bay.  In a few days we may see Egypt going down the same road as Iran or Iraq.  War with Israel would then be next on the list.

The news has been saturated with Egypt, which is obviously the big game at stake here.  Italy was the one bit of hopefully unmitigated good news in the lot of it.  I suppose I was skirting around the obvious (no pun intended).

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Italy was the one bit of hopefully unmitigated good news in the lot of it.

_{(my emphasis)}

Well I found some protests on some FIAT plants and this pearl:

Italy faces the possibility of a dynastic succession as calls grow for the millionaire daughter of Silvio Berlusconi to enter politics with a view to becoming the country's next prime minister.

Mussolini V.2.0 seems to be doing quite fine despite all his deeds, if you ask me.

On the other side of the Mediterranean more "good news":

Netanyahu urges world to tone down Mubarak criticism amid Egypt unrest

Talk about the kiss of death...
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The reality is that sooner or later the supposedly west friendly regimes in the middle east will fall and the west is going to end up in a difficult situation. I wish we could just leave them alone to do their middle ages in peace but my fear is that the powers that be have too many interests in the zone to leave without making a royal mess out of it.

[Swatopluk]

The first few days Israeli politicians kept iron message discipline and silence becasue they knew that anything they could say would make things worse. The only guy to speak (in favor of Mubarak) got shouted down. If now the Yahoo from Netanya broke that wise silence, it would be another sign of having lost contact with reality.
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Concerning Renaissance Men: the original ones were the state (i.e. despots). No need to (or problem) to deal with any 'independent' justice system.

[Opsa]

Very disturbing situations. I don't know what to make of them, either.

[Lindorm]

If the muslim brotherhood of Egypt is such a threat and such a pawn of militant islamists, I am frankly surprised that the US hasn't started bombing Bavaria, considering the policies of the CSU, albeit somewhat toned down from their heyday under Franz Joseph II.

Back in the eighties, the west-supported dictators were "strong allies in the struggle against Communism", and now, twenty-five years later, "He might torture his citizens and embezzle a few billion, but at least he keeps the islamists at bay".

[Swatopluk]

Well, if Bush had started a war with Lebanon, a few bombs would probably have been dropped on Bayreuth 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

twenty-five years later, "He might torture his citizens and embezzle a few billion, but at least he keeps the islamists at bay".

He tortures other countries citizens on request, remember the extraordinary renditions?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

twenty-five years later, "He might torture his citizens and embezzle a few billion, but at least he keeps the islamists at bay".

He tortures other countries citizens on request, remember the extraordinary renditions?

Well, you know what they say?

What's a little torture-on-request among fellow despots?

(I'm looking at you, Bush and you Cheney....)

[Swatopluk]

not to forget Rummy, who chastises Rice in his memoirs* for being against it.

*calling it an autobiography would imply facts, memoirs can of course be fully based on false memories without violating the truth in advertising principle.
I would still recommend a 'loosely based on real events' label.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

And so it came to pass, the guy fell. Now it isn't clear what's gonna happen, nor which country is next... 

[Swatopluk]

Algeria seems to have opted for the Chinese option (not fully executed yet)

[Griffin NoName]

Debate on TV last night re. middle east brought up Cameron's visit selling arms - Peter Hain (welsh minister in previous govt. though not really relevant) claimed it was ok as we only license them for certain use. Roars of laughter. As if mad military dictators are going to take any notice of a license. And in any case I doubt anti-air-craft gun licenses state not to be used against civilians on the streets of Lybia.

[Swatopluk]

There were protests in Germany against selling minesweepers (ships) to Turkey because the Turks suppress the Kurds.
Looks like someone took the Berittene Gebirgsmarine* literally.


*mounted mountain navy

[Griffin NoName]

John Bowen, BBC reporter, had an interview with Gadaffi today. Much of what he had to say was quite bizarre. eg. apparently the drugs are beginning to wear off that turned people in Al-Quaeda (I paraphrase).