Another Dawkins Row

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Is there any evidence of unusually fearful skunks?

The car/vehicle angle can be applied to many species. eg. a toitorse is so slow the are bound to be hit crossing the road whether they shrink inside their shell or not. Would that lead to shell-less toitorses?

Yes-- there is some evidence of timid skunks, post-modern highways.

In fact, it's become rather a tell-tale, if a skunk is not acting rather timid around humans?  That skunk is likely infested with rabies.

As for the shell-less turtles?  I don't see that.  I would presume that in any given population of skunks, there would normally be a distribution of timid to bold.   Pre-automobile, the bolder skunks would likely get more to eat than their timid counterparts, and likely have more babies, weighting any given population in favor of the bold.  

Post-auto, boldness gets you squashed sooner or later, so the population would shift to the more timid members, weighting it that way.  

It's a really rough hypothesis, but one thing I noticed-- the number of dead skunks (by the road) has diminished from when I was small.   Then, if we drove anywhere out of town in summer, we'd encounter at least one dead skunk by the road-- more likely more than one.

These days?  It's become pretty rare to see a dead'un.    Mostly, I hear about skunks from reports of rabid ones getting trapped by authorities.  

[Aggie]

It's a really rough hypothesis, but one thing I noticed-- the number of dead skunks (by the road) has diminished from when I was small.   Then, if we drove anywhere out of town in summer, we'd encounter at least one dead skunk by the road-- more likely more than one.

These days?  It's become pretty rare to see a dead'un.    Mostly, I hear about skunks from reports of rabid ones getting trapped by authorities.   

Depends on whether population numbers are constant, I suppose.  This could indicate a population drop in general.  I do agree with your general hypothesis.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

It's a really rough hypothesis, but one thing I noticed-- the number of dead skunks (by the road) has diminished from when I was small.   Then, if we drove anywhere out of town in summer, we'd encounter at least one dead skunk by the road-- more likely more than one.

These days?  It's become pretty rare to see a dead'un.    Mostly, I hear about skunks from reports of rabid ones getting trapped by authorities.   

Depends on whether population numbers are constant, I suppose.  This could indicate a population drop in general.  I do agree with your general hypothesis.

It could simply be a drop in population, I agree-- but I've never seen that discussed anywhere, by anyone.  I would think such a sharp decline would have gone noticed, and alarmist noises would be about the place.

[Roland Deschain]

Maybe the people involved are becoming a little too set in their ways, but essentially this is nothing unexpected. We've been arguing over the fine print of evolutionary theory for a long time now, and only time will show whose hypothesis is correct. Both have merit, and both seem logical, so maybe there's a little of each at play here, making both just two parts of the whole picture. What will become important in the future is which one is more important. Maybe it will be found that each hypothesis is more important for each different domain/kingdom/phylum/class/order/family/genus/species.

Selective pressure, and how important various pressures are, will either show in our lifetimes, or not. With enough deaths, as in the case of roadkill of skunks, then this is most likely showing, although one could also say that there are just less skunks alive, and hence less available to kill. Maybe it could also be that the ones who live in areas near roads have been killed off, and it is mainly the ones living in more isolated areas that have taken over, although i'd favour the timidity hypothesis on available evidence within this thread, with an emphasis on the species being removed from certain habitats from previous evidence of what we've done in other places. If the skunks start moving back into the road areas, you'll know.

In the case of giant tortoises, it's different. Skunks breed far quicker for one thing, and as a consequence, genetic changes will occur more readily. With the tortoise, if it's getting killed by car that does it, it's going to take a lot longer for any change to be noticed due to its slower life cycle. I don't know what it would take for it to lose its shell, but i'm very sure that being run over (trying to imagine a car hitting a tortoise weighing 1/4 of a metric tonne) would not select for that.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

You would imagine it would select the cars not hitting them to avoid the repair costs.

[Sibling DavidH]

^

[Griffin NoName]

In the case of giant tortoises, it's different. Skunks breed far quicker for one thing, and as a consequence, genetic changes will occur more readily. With the tortoise, if it's getting killed by car that does it, it's going to take a lot longer for any change to be noticed due to its slower life cycle. I don't know what it would take for it to lose its shell, but i'm very sure that being run over (trying to imagine a car hitting a tortoise weighing 1/4 of a metric tonne) would not select for that.

I was meaning the domestic tortoise, usually belonging to children as a pet.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

You would imagine it would select the cars not hitting them to avoid the repair costs.

Brilliant!

Just as we humans are unwittingly performing an intelligence test on ourselves, with respect to seat belts....

... there are two kinds of people who ride in cars:

1) those who wear seat belts
2) and those who are seriously injured or dead

[Roland Deschain]

Zono, that was brilliant!

The domestic tortoise? It would be one thing if they were in the wild, but the ones being kept as pets are bred away from those sorts of dangers, so evolution will select them for other pressures.

[nefyuBB]

Yes, North American Indians too, I believe.

The fear gets counterproductive once you're high up.  Most people will easily walk along a twelve-inch-wide plank a foot above the ground, but if they tried it a hundred feet up, many would fall off from sheer terror.  That must kill a lot of the people it's meant to save.

Not all tribes unca Daybid , juss the Mohawk tribe . rrrrrrrrr

[Sibling DavidH]

Hello, nefyu!  Good to see you.  Now you come to mention it, you're right.

[Griffin NoName]

Hey! Neffu!