A fascinatingly disturbing thought; Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Well worth 12 minutes, IMHO

From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDRXn96HrtY

[youtube=425,350]rDRXn96HrtY[/youtube]

[pieces o nine]

I have yet to watch a NdGT video that *wasn't* well worth the time.   
Thanks, Bob!

[Roland Deschain]

Another great video of Neil. Thanks for that.

He does make a very interesting point on the more advanced species, which is one i've heard before from Carl Sagan in one form or another. Is it presumptuous of me to say that a species 1% advanced from us would have the ability to understand that they could communicate with us with ease, and recognise at least the rudiments of intelligence in us, whereas we can honestly look at a species 1% devolved from us, and know that full communication would be all but impossible for us? By this I mean that it would be easier to communicate with the advanced species than it would be to communicate with the less advanced species. Would there also be a barrier at some level of advancement, whereby your advancement would cut you off forever from those forms below you? Interesting thought.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I'm not completely sure in both aspects, communication with apes (sign language) and parrots while not too extensive is possible, only that it takes a substantial amount of effort to achieve it. Attempts with cetaceans have been made, and while to my knowledge no one has tried to communicate in a substantive way with elephants it is clear that it's possible. On the same token, the fact that a tiny minority of humans consider the effort of communication with so-called "lesser" species worthwhile, a fair amount*  of individuals have no qualms killing them or using them for pleasure or profit. There is no reason to think that it would be too different with a more advanced species, some may consider academically interesting to communicate with us, and many may think it isn't worth the effort or consider culling the population of the planet to save the biosphere. Heck, there is a better experiment, how interested the average 140+ IQ person is with dealing with people with IQs under 110?

*I bet for each human who considers communication with animals a worthwhile endeavor at least three (if not ten) are perfectly willing to kill them, just go to Africa or Japan or...

[Swatopluk]

I am even mory cynical. Lots of people would love to use their fellow humans for target practice, hunting etc. And most of them would be less sophisticated than Count Zaroff.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I agree (and I am quite certain Doctor Tyson would too) that it was a bit of presumption on his part to speak of 1% "advanced" over us humans.

I think the exercise in mental gymnastics is a worthy one though-- for it helps us to re-evaluate our own definition of what it means to be "intelligent" with respect to other species.

Ronald makes an an excellent observation with regards to communication barriers; it is presumptive to assume a 1% "advanced" intelligence would communicate in such a way that we verbal humans could comprehend.   We humans use a memorized collection of coded sound-bits, coupled with a smattering of body language (mostly facial).

Squid (for example) use body-colors to communicate, as many species have the ability to change their skin patterns at will-- and I've no doubt they can use these patterns to communicate within the limitations of their intelligences.

What if these hypothetical "superior" aliens used chemical pheromones to communicate?  And as such, the inter-individual empathy was so extreme, that they acted as if they are always of one accord?  And what if, due to such a close relationship within their collective feelings, that they never had more than a slight bit of inter-individual conflict?   And seeing us poor "emotion-blind" humans struggle to understand our own species, give us a wide berth as result?   Not wishing to become entangled with such a frightfully violent species? 

Or supposing these aliens used pure mathematics of some sort, as their sole mode of communication?   Utterly devoid of any such thing as feelings (as we know the word).    Completely practical, utterly and completely without the nuances of judgement that emotions create in us.   I'm remembering Will Smith's character in the movie I, Robot, who hated robots because they were so utterly devoid of feelings.   And the reason was, that a robot practically chose to rescue him, instead of the much less-likely-to-survive child in a situation where only one could be rescued before death.   An unfeeling robot would make that practical choice: the adult is stronger and will likely survive.  The child is small, and already nearly dead-- survival is unlikely.  Rescue the adult.

But to a normal, typical human?  There would be zero hesitation-- zero quandary-- go for the child, always.   It is what we do-- because we have emotional responses when we perceive children.

So our judgments and activities are nuanced by our feelings.  What would an unfeeling alien see in us, then?   Weak?  Impractical?   

Hopefully, they would also give us a wide berth as well, rather than Exterminate! Exterminate! as would be practical (possibly).

It's a very interesting exercise in guessing, I think:  what form could aliens with "superior" intelligence take?   And how would these "superior" aliens communicate? 

What if they took the same road we humans are on?  What if, these "superior" aliens are an amalgam of organic/non-organic?    We humans are certainly doing that to ourselves, as we immerse ourselves in technology.  It started with artificial "fur" to keep warm.  Then artificial "caves" to for protection from the weather and predators.  And artificial "claws" and "teeth" to assist us in hunting, food-gathering.   And artificial "hands" to gather this bounty in (baskets, backpacks, grain storage vessels).   Technology, by any other name is still artificial aids and/or extensions of our own selves.

So what if these "superior" aliens come in the form of a smooth blending of biological and technological?  Where the seams are impossible to detect, and there is no real distinction from one to the other:  a true gestalt of biology and technology. 

Would these aliens see our path as being similar to the one they already trod?  And perhaps make a gadget or thingy that enables communication between us and they?